The Cardboard Box Reform - Nixon's Ghost Bill & A Crucial Flaw in Democracy
CRI9 HN recommenders · recommended in 10 months, 2014-2025
109K views · 12 years ago · lecture · evergreen
James D'Angelo argues that the 1970 Legislative Reorganization Act made congressional votes public, opening the door to lobbyists and special interests. He proposes restoring secret voting as a cheap fix for corruption and many social ills.
HN commenters recommend it as a long, evidence-backed theory for what changed in the 1970s and why Congress is broken, even when they are unsure they agree.
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14 comments from Hacker News
I think this group will appreciate this guy's analysis. "James D'Angelo (Winner 2014 MIT Climate CoLab, ex-NASA scientist) uncovers a crucial flaw in American democracy. Incredibly, the solution – which lays at the heart of all current social concerns (inequality, the recession, political division, government disapproval, Citizens United, civil rights and corruption) – costs under 5 dollars. James presents a breathtaking new look at congressional transparency and the troubles it has wrought by opening the doors to special interests and the wealthy. So, welcome to the world of Martin Gilens' 2014 paper and flatline graph. Also welcome to the world created by electronic voting machines and the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1970 (passed on October 26, 1970). Unheard of in any current political discussion, this act of Congress has produced endless avenues for lucrative lobbying of special interest groups." The Cardboard Box Reform - Nixon's Ghost Bill & A Crucial Flaw in Democracy ▶ this video
I ran across this theory years ago about a piece of legislation in late 1970 allowed lobbyists into previously closed door committee meetings, thus allowing lobbyists to assert direct pressure on congressional members. The second video is from the same guy but is rather long and goes into this idea that transparency in congressional committees is a counter-intuitively bad idea because it allows lobbyists to proactively apply pressure before anything ever gets to a floor vote. link ▶ this video
This is very long but it goes into a well thought-out theory for why and how this happened. Very interesting stuff. Well worth a watch. ▶ this video
> It would be good to analyze what happened between 1965 and 2022, what has changed that instead of progress we see some kind of downward spiral. Whether you agree with him or not, this video highlights how the 70s changed everything (in the US at least) The Cardboard Box Reform - Nixon's Ghost Bill & A Crucial Flaw in Democracy ▶ this video
I think they have the correct answer as to 'why' this has happened and what the root cause is: ▶ this video
This video has a nice summary of all the changes in the 1970s, and how many other prominent authors have documented that radical shift. ▶ this video The author believes the problems can be traced to the US congress switching from closed (anonymous) to open voting on January 3rd, 1971 Somewhat related, this post shows how the US congress has grown incredibly divided over time link
Another great explaination is the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1970, here's an interesting video. ▶ this video
You may reconsider after watching this video on why secret ballots (or anonymous voting in general) should be preferred over "voting transparency": ▶ this video
Just going to have to disagree... I think earmarks are exactly the thing that caused congresspeople to lose all of their power. > you've just put the big donors totally in charge of the campaign, because their spending dwarfs the spending of the candidates themselves. When the donors are the corporations, and earmarks result in higher profits for the corporations, a dangerous positive feedback loop occurs where you basically end up with corporations controlling the government instead of the elected politicians. As far as the worst political decision of the past few decades, watch this video if you have an hour to spare. It lays out the case where adding transparency in congressional voting is really the root cause of Congress being so screwed up. It might change your mind... ▶ this video
Or because there are very good reasons to not have online voting, like vote buying and voter intimidation could become a thing again: 1. link 2. ▶ this video Not that I don't think there is way to get the best of both worlds. I'm sure there's a way for us to vote without having our votes be made public, so things like vote buying and voter intimidation can't happen, especially with blockchain technology. Or perhaps those factors won't matter as much any more, and are actually acceptable factors when compared to voter suppression through poorly placed and managed polling locations. Either way, it's not as simple as it may seem.
This article kinda just glosses over any causes of lobbying, and then complains about the symptoms. There is one incredibly interesting video I have seen which lays out a major root cause of corruption in the US, and the rise of lobbying and corruption since the 1970s. ▶ this video (Cardboard Box Reform) It is long, but well-reasoned and supported by a lot of evidence. Definitely worth a watch...
Term limits should be set. I think 12 years in Congress is about the optimum number: not too long to become your life, but also long enough to get "enough experience" and pass it along to the newcomers as they come in. That would be 6 terms for House Representatives and 2 for Senators. Of course it's not a magic bullet. Many other things need to be changed: 1) banning corporations, PACs or any organization from giving money to politicians - only individuals should be able to donate and the sum should be limited to maybe $1,000 (allowing "NGO's" and such to give money is just a loophole looking to be abused) 2) making votes in Congress anonymous [1]. Votes shouldn't have "transparency". There's a reason why anywhere else voting is anonymous: it's much harder to get influenced this way, whether it's by money or peer/leader pressure (see invasion of Iraq, passing the "Patriot" Act, etc). The lobbyists can give you money, and then you can still vote as you wish, which over the long term it will seem like a less and less viable strategy for lobbyists. 3) switching to a much more democratic voting system ("approval voting" [2] would be ideal, but even the 2-voting rounds system that's used in some European countries would be a HUGE improvement, as it would fix the "spoiler effect" somewhat - but still nowhere near enough as approval voting does) 4) proportional party representation in Congress (seems like a no-brainer to me). The idea that 2 parties can dominate Congress/Parliament
Voting has to be truly and completely private to not permit of corruption. Smartphones will not and cannot ever be so. Watch this: ▶ this video
We need to destroy their logic about "collecting everything, because they might need it in 100 years" first. They do it because it's so cheap, because they can, and because nobody is really standing up to them. However, if we allowed the government to do anything it wants "just because it can", thousands of our current laws wouldn't exist. I don't remember if it was Clapper or Alexander but one of them basically said the whole Snowden thing will blow-over, and they won't have to change a thing . From what we've seen already that seems to be the case. The watered down USA Freedom Act was killed, and they even made their collection powers stronger with that recent Intelligence Authorization Act. Can you believe that? Not even 2 years after the worldwide Snowden scandal, and they shamelessly push for even more spying powers. These people know nothing can touch them or stop them. And that speaks volumes about the state of our current democracies, when the will of the people, who are supposed to control their governments, and are the ones paying their budgets, have no say in the government's decisions. I highly recommend everyone watch this whole video here. It's an eye opener about many things, and I think he may be right about the root cause of the problem (vote transparency in Congress, which causes politicians to be bought, intimidated, and so on for their vote, just like it would happen with normal citizens's vote if it weren't anonymous): ▶ this video It's from the video where I