Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart

> There was no real competition There was: Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart ▶ this video (2013). Summary: link / link

Debate (almost 10 years ago) TypeScript vs. Dart about the best way to improve JavaScript Anders Hejlsberg (Microsoft) and Lars Bak (Google): TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart ▶ this video

If you're curious, this is an informative video of a debate between the designer of TypeScript and the designer of the Dart VM about which was the better approach. Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart ▶ this video

This is really some armchair psychoanalysis on my part, totally not worth anything in the way of intellectual attention, but I always found this interview with both Typescript and Dart leads to be interesting. ▶ this video I can't help but infer that Lars is quite often a little bit frustrated with the emergence of Typescript. But on top of it being embarrassing for me to imagine up such personal rivalries based on hardly anything, you could view the interview as Dart-hostile given the interviewer.

Another really great video is Anders and Lars Bak around the time Typescript and Dart came out (about the same time.) In this video Anders explains to Lars why TypeScript will win the race to fix JavaScript's drawbacks. Lars was really happy with their Dart VM (as he should be) and didn't really want to hear how TypeScript would prevail. The thing about Anders is that he's usually right and he was. Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak: TypeScript, JavaScript, and Dart ▶ this video

> trying to justify why something is still relevant or important in a company roadmap While I know what you mean, I didn't read the article that way at all. The author isn't a marketing type or someone high up in the company, but a programmer making a calculation about Dart and passing on his observation to his friends, who don't see that situation the way he does. Dart has received a lot of bad press because some Dart engineers made the mistake of saying it would replace JavaScript. I didn't get involved in defending JavaScript from Dart and wrote a bunch of Dart, and I noticed I was about twice as productive. I also learned along the way that Google was heavily invested in something called Google Web Toolkit, a Java based system for writing web apps. I figured Google was looking to replace that with Dart so it would always have a place, and it looks like I was right. The code that powers the engine that brings in 17 billion dollars a year is nothing to dismiss, like many do of Dart, if in fact they are converting GWT to Dart, and it sounds like they are. TypeScript is one way to add safety, Dart is another. The difference in the two approaches is discussed here by the two main authors Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak respectively [1]. What I found compelling about Dart was the elimination of "monkey patching" that Lars talks about. I was also drawn to try TypeScript and found it a great tool as well. So does Google as they are now using TypeScript in Angular 2.0. Microsoft and

It was very unfortunate that the first time that most heard about Dart was through a leaked memo from Google predicting Dart would replace JavaScript [ link ]. It created an atmosphere of hostility towards Dart that I'm sure the developers didn't deserve. I now understand your objections and I'm sorry I lumped you in with the general hostility. My own doubts about Dart after using it for a commercial app, began after watching this video [ ▶ this video ] where Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak discuss Dart and TypeScript. I felt Anders made a better case for TypeScript and Lars was feeling a bit threatened, which confirmed for me that Anders was right. Considering where Dart and TypeScript are today, I made the right choice moving to TypeScript. The other problem that I felt wasn't being addressed was that the Dart2js output and JavaScript interop needed a lot of improvement. Since it became clear that the DartVM was not landing in other browsers, this should have been a top priority and it wasn't. Now it is a priority, but it's not clear to me how many resources Google is giving to it. I'm very glad that the path is much clearer these days and thank you for your efforts to sort these things out.

When there is no Dart VM in the browser I honestly don't see any advantage over TypeScript. Two VMs inside each other (with two garbage collectors) will always be slower and use more memory than just one. Additionally, you always need to ship the runtime with all your scripts. You also have to use FFI to interact with Javascript. All the advantages over plain JS you mentioned above are also present in TypeSctipt (or not needed). There is also a nice discussion about TypeScript and Dart here: ▶ this video

I really like the idea of static type checking, but I'm not convinced about the usefulness of runtime checking. It will introduce a performance penalty and it will go against duck typing, which is one of the coolest features of languages like JS. It seems that this project is trying to build something in between of TypeScript and Dart: they want the optional runtime type checking of Dart vs the good interoperability with JS of TypeScript. In this interview [1] Anders Hejlsberg and Lars Bak (from TypeScript and Dart) discuss the idea of runtime type checking. They don't seem very convinced of the idea either. [1] ▶ this video