Bernie Sanders: "Open borders? That's a Koch brothers proposal"

Noam Chomsky is far left and Bernie Sanders is also more liberal than a Democrat. Here is Sanders saying the same thing I did ▶ this video I’m confused, what do you think a liberal is?

@Starman Noam Chomsky is far left and Bernie Sanders is also more liberal than a Democrat. Here is Sanders saying the same thing I did ▶ this video

This is basically 100% backwards. In Canada it's large corporate lobbies pushing for more immigration. Why? Because it lets them keep wages low and makes unionization impossible. See also, Bernie 10 years ago: ▶ this video I don't know at what point people were convinced that the push against immigration is some kind of billionaire plot, but is has been great cover for said billionaires.

I don't think that's quite right. I think over the last 10 years a lot of the anti-corporate energy of Occupy Wall Street has been funnelled - by means of the culture war - into "identity" issues that have little potential to harm corporate power or profits. I would argue that this did not originate on the right or left but was the result of a political class that's beholden to endless donations. To me, one really clear example of this is immigration. As recently as 2016, Bernie Sanders was saying that mass immigration is a Koch Brothers strategy for keeping wages low[1]. I think he was right. But the left has been cajoled away from this position over time because it had the potential to harm their corporate donors. [1] ▶ this video

This policy needs a refresh - there are many issues with the H1B program today - a good article if you're interested: link We should be wary billionaires are controlling these policies. Bernie Sanders did this interview a decade ago and he was right, unchecked immigration is not in the economic interest of the working class. ▶ this video

This topic reminds me of the old interview Bernie Sanders gave nearly a decade ago. ▶ this video I hope citizens wake up, business interests are not always aligned with your (citizen) economic interest. It doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal immigration, there are economic realities that we should talk about - stop focusing on the color of someones skin.

Here is Bernie in 2015 saying against open borders saying it was a rightwing proposal: ▶ this video link Now he's fully onboard with open border policies. He doesn't even have the same message he did 5 years ago. Just like his twitter history shows him tweeting about evil millionaires and billionaires until he became a millionaire himself and now only targets billionaires.

> There are immigrants in Europe. If you look at European countries individually there is massive immigration between them, as well as immigration from outside. And yet. And yet in almost no country has the original population almost become a minority, unlike the US. So clearly the cumulative net immigration is greater in the US. And Bernie Sanders (someone who has certainly applied the "least amount of reflection" to this) seems to share the GPs view: ▶ this video

One of the illustrative point is also that some present day Democrat presidential candidates and legislators just 4-5 years ago were against increased immigration and open borders. Listen to what Sanders has to say about "open borders": ▶ this video he is not just slightly against it, he is quite upset by the idea altogether.

> I find it difficult to believe that a pro-trade union candidate like Bernie Sanders does not understand the basic laws of supply/demand: How a supply of cheap labour affects the wages of the individual employee. This interview would indicate that he understands that, and wants to restrict immigration for that very reason: ▶ this video Edit: The interview is from 2015, so it may be that his understanding has 'evolved' since.

That's not the same as against borders - see e.g. international trade, or tourism. Socialism today seems to agree with borders ( ▶ this video ), and back then, there was national socialism...

Older family friend made $30/hr in the 60-70s with pension and benefits working in a meat packing plant with a high school education. Same job today pays $15/hr with no benefits thanks to illegal immigration. There's a reason people like the Koch brothers spend millions in support of illegal immigration, they wanted to drive down the labor cost for jobs like the above. ▶ this video Offshoring and illegal immigration has killed low skill jobs and given billion dollar multinational corporations the ability to demand whatever they want from workers because they have unlimited labor supply. This doesn't just effect low skill labor either, it forces more people to go to college and take on debt which then drives down the wages of high skill work as well. It's a scam and the american people should be angry

It's supply and demand 101, illegal immigration combined with offshoring lowers wages and increases profit margin for the wealthy. Low wage jobs are taken by illegal immigrants, forcing US citizens to take on debt to go to college, where wages are also lowered because there are now thousands of college grads desperate to pay off their debt that can't be eliminated through bankruptcy due to congress being lobbied. A wonderful scam. Same thing with big tech companies pushing for more H1B to push down engineering wages and lower standard of living. This stuff shouldn't even be left vs right, it should be common sense. Here's bernie sanders talking about how open boarders is pushed by the koch brothers to give them cheap labor ▶ this video We're rapidly heading towards feudalism 2.0. You can already see it in the Bay Area(and essentially any major urban area) where only the wealthy can afford a home. The majority pay a large chunk of their income to their landlord

For context , this is the video ▶ this video and yeah, open borders was a libertarian idea but somehow the tables have turned.

There an interesting thing there. Bernie, believe or not, was very much against globalization, TPP and open borders in general: ▶ this video Listen to how he says it, it's a thing he really hates. This is not fluke or anything, Chomsky another leftist thinker also has been anti-NAFTA well, since it was signed pretty much: link Notice how he correctly predicted an influx of poor South American farmers who are pretty much forced to abandon their family to come and wash toilets and pick crops here.

I made a few tangential points regard globalization in a similar discussion. Basically wondering how globalization which was a very right wing corporatist idea (Sanders calls it a Koch brothers proposal here ▶ this video basically) became a favorite of the new left. And conversely anti-globalization was a top issue for the left along with TPP, NAFTA and other such stuff. I think it is rather ironic that the new "left" love them globalization all of the sudden, even when their younger brothers were tear-gassed protesting it, just a decade ago or so protesting against it. (More discussion here link along with a promising book on the subject, 'The Technological Society' by Jacques Ellul suggested by Drumlin. Still waiting for it to come from Amazon)

Anti-globalization was always a hot topic for the left. Read Chomsky on NAFTA for example and free trade: link Here is Bernie Sanders being visibly upset at raising immigration levels and instituting "open borders" policy: ▶ this video I am kind of interested how the current liberals become pro-globalization all of the sudden. They went from organizing large anti-globalization riots, and getting tear gased fighting it, to "What do you mean? We love globalization!". I want to see a more specific analysis in how the shift happened, and maybe a more detailed timeline. Certainly an interesting topic. Here is of course Zuckerberg with his letter worrying that people are not buying the globalization shtick very well anymore: link If you squint enough to not notice the liberal veneer he puts on you might think he is one of the Koch brothers.

I think Bernie Sanders elucidates well on this issue in this video. It's about immigration but essentially the same situation: ▶ this video Basically whether it is morally right or wrong is irrelevant because the US government has a duty to put the American people first.