HackerTube
HomeLongsLikedHistoryWatch laterCategoriesPlaylistsSettings

28c3: The coming war on general computation

28c36 HN recommenders · recommended in 6 months, 2011-2026
YouTube
267K views · 14 years ago · talk · evergreen

Cory Doctorow's 28c3 keynote argues that the copyright wars were just a skirmish and that the real fight will be a war on the general-purpose computer. He explains why locked-down devices, DRM and surveillance tools all depend on removing general computation.

HN returns to it constantly as a prescient talk, cited whenever threads cover DRM, locked-down devices, app verification or restrictions on running your own software.

Hacker culture & free softwareFree speech, censorship & civil libertiesPrivacy, surveillance & cybercrime#drm#copyright#corydoctorow#locked-downdevices#ccc

20 comments from Hacker News

@supern0va2026 · in “Android Developer Verification”

Is it a serious problem that you can run whatever software you want on your computer? Should we make it so that no one can do that without permission to protect them? I recommend Cory Doctorow's talk on why this is a serious problem for society: link ▶ this video

RecommendsView on HN
@bo10242025 · in “What happened to running what you wanted on your own machine?”

"The Coming War on General Computation", Cory Doctorow (2011). Speech: ▶ this video Transcript: link (Of course, Stallman warned of this type of thing much earlier as well.)

CitesView on HN
@66fm472tjy72025 · in “Microsoft deletes official Windows 11 CPU/TPM bypass for unsupported PCs”

puts tinfoil hat on Ensuring that a critical mass of people use remote attestation[0] capable devices. The next step is a browser API[1] for this so that content owners can exclude devices capable of storing the content, or stripping out ads/tracking, etc. Sure, there will be a cat-and-mouse game where people will figure out how to fake the attestation for some period of time, but general computation[2] is probably on the way out. ---- [0] link [1] link [2] ▶ this video

CitesView on HN
@freefaler2023 · in “Will Browsers Be Required by Law to Stop You from Visiting Infringing Sites?”

Cory Doctorow has a prescient talk: "The coming war on general computation" from 2011 (12 years ago) in which he argues that all general computing platforms (OS, phone OS, browser) would face challenges by governments and corporations. This looks like another way to control content distribution and put more control in Google's hands. They've made a great strategic choice in building Chrome browser and effectively superseded Microsoft and Apple on desktops as a platform. The talk can be found here: ▶ this video When people have means to consume or produce content without control any governmental bureaucrat will try to control this activity. History supports this argument. No printing press > no cheap books > illiterate population > easy to control what spreads as information and what do not. Printing press arrived > cheap books > growing literacy > control over the presses. Lenin's first targets were the post/telegraph (communication), bridges and railways (movement of people) and all big printing houses (Lenin's Full Collected works - vol. 32, page 282) Radio arrived > Fixed Frequencies Radio sets sold & Governmental Radio jamming stations TV > Licence to broadcast Internet > Big Firewall of China & etc... And don't even think about moving money freely as experienced by requirement to show why are you paying someone and those nice people from bank compliance departments. The cost of enforcement in digital economy is way cheaper than before. The tools are there or can be built chea

RecommendsView on HN
@loup-vaillant2023 · in “UK proposal to criminalize “sophisticated encrypted communication devices””

Computers are a little different than specialised devices like… well, bombs & drugs let's say. Heard of the coming war on general computation? ▶ this video link

CitesView on HN
@woojoo6662021 · in “Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California”

You might have already seen this but in case you havent, there's a famous talk about this called "the coming war on general computation" ( ▶ this video ), and much of this has already come true

RecommendsView on HN
@vanderZwan2021 · in “The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology”

> Software is economically worthless without making it artificially scarce. A lot of "software innovation" is not about building better software, but building software you can charge for, which means "walled gardens", patents, DRM, license servers, anti-tampering mechanisms, and the like. In essence all content (music, movies, software, books, etc) follows the same pattern. You remind me of Cory Doctorow's "The Coming War on General Computation" keynote, which interestingly didn't notice that streaming and similar cloud-based services would become the DRM of the last decade. Or, as it turns out, the rising appeal of non -general purpose devices that are more efficient. [0] ▶ this video [1] link

CitesView on HN
@akersten2020 · in “How SGX Fails in Practice”

I'm comfortable with it on SmartCards or EMV chips, since those are tailored devices for a specific purpose and the trust model is understood by the participants. I'm not particularly upset that I can't root my credit card. Mobile phones, it's disappointing, but total consumer control was kind of a lost cause from day 1. What truly bothers me is the introduction of trusted computing into general-purpose consumer CPUs, where previously we had complete freedom. There's an old but still very good CCC talk that encapsulates my feelings about this [0]. [0]: ▶ this video

RecommendsView on HN
@Schnitz2019 · in “Notarizing Your App Before Distribution”

This isn't a big surprise, you should expect the tightening of the screws to continue and the pace of it to accelerate. The real issue here is general purpose computing. General purpose computing makes it possible to block ads, to rip your CDs instead of the industry forcing you to buy the same music again, etc. and as a result it is THE major obstacle to unlimited rent seeking and squeezing the last penny out of every user. Expect the industry to keep working in this direction until everything is as locked down as an iPhone. See also: ▶ this video

CitesView on HN
@arximboldi2017 · in “Deep Learning’s Impact on Image Processing, Mathematics, and Humanity”

This is an interesting article. It made me think of the socio-political consequences of the move towards neural networks. Many of us, children of the personal computer revolution, were attracted to computers for its empowering and democratizing effects. Just with a computer you could build anything! You are as powerful as any of "them"! The proprietary software model was developed to monetize end consumers by enchaining them, but the free software model and the fertile communities of the early Internet showed that the model of personal computation could not simply be displaced by legalese. But if we take the author's position on the impact of deep networks, the model of computation is changing again. If teaching deep networks is the new way to write useful programs, our brains and personal computers are not enough... they are obsolete. We now need clusters and, most importantly, massive access to data! This gives extraordinary leverage to the hoarders of data and servers of the Internet, the googles and the facebooks. I'd like to think that maybe we are just at the beginning, the early "mainframe neural networks" era. That we just have to wait until there is enough technology and new markets discovered to build the "personal neural network". That consensual, open and distributed ways of sharing data will emerge and that new massively parallel computers will become affordable by the masses. That the models of neural networks will become well divulged and simplified and kids wi

CitesView on HN
@themusicgod12017 · in “US Announces Withdrawal from TPP”

The TPP was far greater than a class issue. It was part of the War on General Purpose Computation ( ▶ this video ). It cut through class lines, into our ability to control the technology in our lives.

CitesView on HN
@zxcdw2014 · in “Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'”

> And if I decided to show one of them to a someone who gave me money in return, that still doesn't give anybody who didn't pay me or anyone else for that matter, any right to access that file, no matter how little "intrinsic value" it represents. Sure, this is unconditionally right if we go by the book and agree with the law. No argument here. Though, by going by the said law... The full albums, songs, movies, movie clips, whatever unauthorized there is in YouTube for example for billions of people to see every day creates a huge problem. For example here in Finland, any person listening to an unauthorized upload of an album on YouTube breaks the law. Practically a huge majority of the youth are criminals as they do this on a daily basis, and take it for granted. Obviously it is utterly senseless to go after these people for what they are doing. > If someone invented a teleport that allowed people to beam to whereever and back, that would cause a rise in theft of tangible goods all over the world. But this would not mean that because the old systems of doors and locks were now inefficient, people should not be allowed to claim ownership of property anymore. But this, of course, is a flawed analogy. A better one would be with an ability to clone material for free. Say, if we were able to build a car, and then clone it for free for everyone. Why wouldn't we? For many goods we could just come up with better and better ones again and again, and people would immediately clone the

CitesView on HN
@pdkl952014 · in “Lost Lessons from 8-Bit BASIC”

> the idea that users shouldn't be developers has lead to a situation in which access to development tools and information are seemingly treated as a privilege instead of a right Unfortunately, a lot of people have been starting the War On General Purpose Computing[1] for a while now. While many people saw Doctorow's first talk[1] on the War On General Purpose computing, his sequel talk[2] about the upcoming Civil -War On General Purpose Computing is one of the most important talks I've ever seen. The talk is about exactly this point: Turing completeness scares various traditional powers (and some new/upcoming powers), and their instinct is to lash out and try to mandate that someone make a computer that can't run the various programs that scare them. Not understanding what "Turing Complete" means, they end up in a cycle that tries to blacklist anything that allows these scary programs to be written and used. Hiding the dev tools is just one step on a path that - by definition - must end up with the hobbling of computing devices until they are no longer Turing complete. This problem needs to be fought right now , in a big way. The non-technical population is just starting to understand the full impact of what it means to have a General Purpose Computer, and we are only seeing the first skirmishes. The 2nd talk I mentioned above by Doctorow[2] - which I very strongly recommend that everybody watch - points out how modern concerns over "dev tools" (or "copyright") are trivial.

Strongly recommendsView on HN
@higherpurpose2014 · in “EA is File Snooping with the Origin Client”

Basically everything Cory Doctorow has predicted [1] would happen with DRM, and of course what Richard Stallman said many years before that. [1] ▶ this video And now we're going to get OS level DRM that works through all of our browsers, thanks to Netflix, Google, Microsoft, Apple, and last, but not least, the W3C. Terrific.

CitesView on HN
@sp3322014 · in “US cybercrime laws being used to target security researchers”

Cory Doctorow's keynote at Chaos Communication Congress (2011) was about this trend. It's not technically feasible to make a turing-complete system that only does things that the creator likes. All anti-virus and DRM systems are provably limited unless general-purpose computation is removed. ▶ this video

CitesView on HN
@stefanix2013 · in “Ubuntu Touch OS wins its first smartphone partner”

Dev here. Moved from OSX to Ubuntu a year ago. Love not having to agree-click ULAs all the time. Setting up dev stacks is very often so much easier and better documented. Working with open source software to develop open source projects is very enjoyable and very often I feel this is just the beginning of something very profound. With proprietary OSes I constantly have the feeling of banging against elaborately engineered limitations. This feels so counter-productive. Instead of producing something great why not spend incredible amounts of work-years on creating artificial limitations for the users, right. No thanks. In other words I like my computers to be general: ▶ this video

CitesView on HN
@kijin2013 · in “Welcome to Echelon 2.0”

What next? This [1], of course. Of all the electronic device you own that are capable of being exploited for automated surveillance, your PC or Mac is probably the only thing that is not actually being used for automated surveillance (not counting your web browsing habits, and provided you don't have any spyware on your computer). How dare you use a computing device that (hopefully) does not have any backdoors built into it, is not locked into any vendor's monthly payment plan, is not locked into any vendor's proprietary OS, and even supports "terrorist" techniques such as full-disk encryption? Fortunately for Big Brother, key hardware components of general-purpose computers are only produced by a handful of corporations such as Intel and AMD. Don't be surprised if they agree to build all sorts of defects-by-design into their processors, graphics cards, HDDs/SSDs, etc. There are already plenty of excuses: I have popcorn ready for the day when graphics cards finally implement security systems to prevent them from being used for bitcoin mining or password brute-forcing. The FSF should change their name to FCF, Free Computing Foundation. We need them badly, more than ever before. [1] Cory Doctorow, "The Coming War on General Computation", ▶ this video

CitesView on HN
@shmerl2013 · in “Dear Congress: It's time for a real fix on unlocking and the DMCA”

You asked a straight question - how to reduce piracy. I answered - treat customers with respect (no DRM), and many of the current pirates will become paying users. If they want to "eliminate piracy" - they can forget about it, it will never happen. They can however increase their profits by acting decently. Today they are mostly focusing on chasing pirates wasting resources on that completely in vain. They should focus on catering to legitimate users instead. And it will pay off. As proven by those who act decently and principally don't use DRM. > Because if I'm selling files for $5 with no copy protection and Joe Pirate is giving them away for $0 (but he doesn't want me to disrespect him by filing legal action against him or hurting his feeling by labeling him a pirate), tell me why people are going to give me $5 for the same thing that they could get for free? I thought this is simple. People already can get it for free by pirating it. I.e. you have such choices: 1. Sell for $5 with DRM that reduces usability by limiting platforms where this can be used and etc. etc. By using DRM the distributor also offends paying customers by default by treating them as potential criminals. Joe pirate breaks DRM, and gives this out for $0 with no DRM, which can be used anywhere. 2. Sell for $5 with no DRM. It gives wide platforms availability and shows respect to the customer. Joe pirate gives out the same thing for $0. Note, Joe pirate will give it away in either case. So what is better

CitesView on HN
@ChristianMarks2012 · in “Elsevier's recent update to its letter to the mathematical community”

It is possible that in one hundred years or so that many of the "most useful" results published in copyrighted journals of the 20th century and available nowhere else will have found their way into the public domain. But it need not turn out that way. Cory Doctorow spoke about the coming war on general computation at 28c3: ▶ this video So we cannot be complacent.

CitesView on HN
@ugh2011 · in “Doctorow: The coming war on general-purpose computation”

It’s worth watching the talk (linked in the article, but special pointing out seems appropriate): ▶ this video I like to call it the secret keynote of 28C3.

Strongly recommendsView on HN
Civil War General-Purpose Computing | Cory Doctorow | Talks at Google1:10:23

Civil War General-Purpose Computing | Cory Doctorow | Talks at Google

Talks at Google
91K views • 14 years ago
Trusted Computing? Yes or No3:31

Trusted Computing? Yes or No

Robin Good
47K views • 20 years ago
Richard Stallman: Copyright vs. Community2:05:23

Richard Stallman: Copyright vs. Community

RU Computer Science
51K views • 13 years ago
re:publica 2012 - Eben Moglen - Freedom of Thought Requires Free Media1:03:42

re:publica 2012 - Eben Moglen - Freedom of Thought Requires Free Media

re:publica
44K views • 14 years ago
28c3: The Science of Insecurity59:23

28c3: The Science of Insecurity

28c3
42K views • 14 years ago
DEF CON 31 - An Audacious Plan to Halt the Internet's Ensh*ttification  - Cory Doctorow45:43

DEF CON 31 - An Audacious Plan to Halt the Internet's Ensh*ttification - Cory Doctorow

DEFCONConference
303K views • 3 years ago
Free software, free society: Richard Stallman at TEDxGeneva 201413:40

Free software, free society: Richard Stallman at TEDxGeneva 2014

TEDx Talks
487K views • 12 years ago
DEFCON 20: Bigger Monster, Weaker Chains: The National Security Agency and the Constitution48:52

DEFCON 20: Bigger Monster, Weaker Chains: The National Security Agency and the Constitution

Christiaan008
10K views • 13 years ago
PdF 2011 | Eben Moglen: The alternate net we need, and how we can build it ourselves15:13

PdF 2011 | Eben Moglen: The alternate net we need, and how we can build it ourselves

PdF YouTube
20K views • 15 years ago
Joanna Rutkowska: Towards (reasonably) trustworthy x86 laptops1:02:52

Joanna Rutkowska: Towards (reasonably) trustworthy x86 laptops

media.ccc.de
27K views • 10 years ago
Keynote - Karen Sandler54:51

Keynote - Karen Sandler

Linux.conf.au 2012 -- Ballarat, Australia
20K views • 14 years ago
"A Political History of X" - Keith Packard (LCA 2020)45:33

"A Political History of X" - Keith Packard (LCA 2020)

linux.conf.au
52K views • 6 years ago
DEF CON 26  - Christopher Domas - GOD MODE UNLOCKED Hardware Backdoors in redacted x8646:04

DEF CON 26 - Christopher Domas - GOD MODE UNLOCKED Hardware Backdoors in redacted x86

DEFCONConference
86K views • 8 years ago
DEF CON 18 - Jason Scott - You're Stealing It Wrong! 30 Years of Inter-Pirate Battles55:59

DEF CON 18 - Jason Scott - You're Stealing It Wrong! 30 Years of Inter-Pirate Battles

DEFCONConference
60K views • 13 years ago
Eben Moglen - Freedom in The Cloud57:10

Eben Moglen - Freedom in The Cloud

Punkcast
49K views • 16 years ago
Talk - Eben Moglen - Free and Open Software: Paradigm for a New Intellectual Commons1:11:56

Talk - Eben Moglen - Free and Open Software: Paradigm for a New Intellectual Commons

talkingsticktv
10K views • 17 years ago
29C3 Panel: Jesselyn Radack, Thomas Drake, William Binney on whistleblowing and surveillance1:22:40

29C3 Panel: Jesselyn Radack, Thomas Drake, William Binney on whistleblowing and surveillance

thisdayinwikileaks
35K views • 13 years ago
GOD MODE UNLOCKED - Hardware Backdoors in x86 CPUs51:00

GOD MODE UNLOCKED - Hardware Backdoors in x86 CPUs

Black Hat
319K views • 8 years ago
OSCON 2011:  Karen Sandler14:26

OSCON 2011: Karen Sandler

O'Reilly
15K views • 15 years ago
re:publica 2015 - Aral Balkan: Beyond The Camera Panopticon1:03:14

re:publica 2015 - Aral Balkan: Beyond The Camera Panopticon

re:publica
21K views • 11 years ago