Why We Won't Raise Our Kids in Suburbia

Calling everything but cars exclusionary is mildly hilarious. First of all, you're simply forgetting about public transport. That's needed too and pretty much covers all your concerns. However... 1. The disabled? How many of those do you think are disabled in just the right ways to still be able to drive? You know "disabled" doesn't just mean "missing a limb", right? So uh, if the only option is to drive and someone's disabled and therefore can't drive, what do they... do? Anyhow: [1] 2. Kids? How many kids do you see driving cars around? You know 10+ year olds can just... bike on their own, right? Like, to school, etc.? [2] [3] [4] Below that age, just bike them around? [5] ;) > Forcing You know nobody's forcing you to do anything, right? Like, you can still own and use your car, there are some very valid use cases best served by them. For example, around half of the Dutch own a car. They just don't use them as much for really dumb purposes, like driving 5km to a grocery store, because the nearest one is within walking or cycling distance. The problem is that driving has been so heavily subsidized, that we've come to take it for granted and are now truly shocked when asked to pay more to even somewhat offset the real costs. And I'm afraid there's no viable path forward that doesn't involve eventually paying in full. > Forcing people to bike and walk everywhere sounds a lot better if you're in a moderate climate where bad weather means you need to pack a light jacket and wait

I'm already imagining what kind of arguments you are preparing. Kids are infinitely better off somewhere they can just bike places with their friends, compared to a car-centric hellhole: ▶ this video

Wouldn't it be nice if the only other car traffic on the road was there because of use cases similarly niche to yours? Public transportation is great at eliminating the need for using a car for completely overkill trips like commuting and basic shopping. Having said that, given good cycling infrastructure, chances are you could either bring your kids along on a cargo bike [1] or they could just ride there themselves [2]. [1]: link [2]: ▶ this video

▶ this video Dangers of Car-Dependent Suburbs: How Urban Planning Affects Parenting In this segment, the speaker highlights the stark contrast between the freedom and independence of Dutch children versus the restrictive upbringing in car-dependent suburbs of North America. By comparing their own childhood in London, Ontario, to their current experiences in Amsterdam, the speaker argues that the Dutch city's design and culture enable children to develop autonomy and independence, whereas North American suburbs lack the necessary infrastructure and social norms to allow children to thrive without excessive parental supervision

There's a great video by the urbanist youtuber Not Just Bikes about this very topic - he ended up moving to the Netherlands so his kids can safely play on the street and independently meet up with friends: ▶ this video

Screens are part of the problem but the biggest cause is lack of space to be a child, and the biggest culprit is our car-centric urban planning which transformed our streets into car storage space / racing track. Our streets have become hostile to anything but cars. Not Just Bikes video on suburbia: ▶ this video

This is the gist of it: ▶ this video But I grew up in central California and surroundings in the 90's and rode my bike everywhere. And it was horrible. I nearly died multiple times, and drivers were sometimes furious at someone biking on the road. I rode from Sac to Folsom once over a narrow bridge with no shoulder and can't believe I lived. I thought it might be better in cities, but Berkeley, while better, was still mediocre, and Santa Monica was bad. Really, everywhere in the US is somewhere on the spectrum from "merely horrible" to "dire hellscape". Ten years ago my wife and I moved to Ireland. Ireland is also bad, but still massively better than anywhere I've lived in the US. But now we have young kids, and we don't want "better than the US", we want "good enough your child can bike to school, and when people kill children with their cars the people are angry with the driver, not sympathetic towards them". Which means the Netherlands, or perhaps Denmark. So that's where we're going. Ireland being wildly incompetent bureaucratically it took 4 years just to process mine and my wife's naturalisation applications.

The issue isn't purely house vs apartment. It's a symptom of our neighborhood design. Not Just Bikes has a really good video on why suburbia (usually single family housing) is often worse for children than denser environments. ▶ this video

There is a correlation with urban sprawl and the autonomy of children[1]. Depending on where you live, it's harder young people to get around compared to 40 years ago. Like this HN user's experience in this same thread[2]. By making society car centric we have made it difficult for children to exercise independence even if their parents allowed them to. In a non metro area your options as a teen to go somewhere are to beg your parents to drive you somewhere or to walk for hours to a bus stop. These barriers and the rise in pedestrian fatalities do not incentivize autonomy. [1] ▶ this video Why we won't raise our kids in suburbia [2] link

What also contributes to <18 (and the elderly) social isolation is the car-centric urban planning which denies mobility freedom to this demographics. This is even more relevant in North America Why We Won't Raise Our Kids in Suburbia: ▶ this video

Yet again this video on how there is something deeply, horrifyingly wrong with raising kids in American suburbs is apt. ▶ this video Visited Utrecht in December and visiting Freiburg in April to decide where to live.

Well, part of the problem is our infrastructure choices over the past many decades. When you build suburbs that are very isolated from places you need to go and then need to drive to literally everything you do, nearly everyone starts viewing normal activities like walking to a grocery store as abnormal. As a result, kids can’t actually go anywhere until they turn 16 and get a car. :/ There are a lot of excellent videos about this sad problem, like this: ▶ this video But at the end of the day, when it’s not actually possible to be independent every day, you just loose this culture. And countries that made different infrastructure and development decisions 6 decades ago are in a much better place today — it doesn’t have to be this way.

Once the environment is safe for kids you don't have to do as many logistics for your children. You might be interested in this "Not Just Bikes" video about raising kids in non car dependent places: ▶ this video or this one about kids who bike to school in a group for safety: link

My family had the same mindset when we moved to SoCal in 2011. Unfortunately, you may want to throw dreams of "walkable" out the window. In SoCal you will absolutely need a car. The best schools are usually in the suburbs, but the suburbs are always the least walkable areas. Relevant video: ▶ this video

NotJustBikes has some excellent videos on the differences between US and European cities, this one captures many of the issues - ▶ this video

Cities in the Netherlands are very good and safe places to raise kids in: ▶ this video It is just a matter for human instead of car-centric city planning. This will also help with poverty and crime.

Watch some videos from this channel and you'll be able to see how the US definitely does not do enough in terms of creating safe road infrastructure for all: link link ▶ this video

should be in school by 7am or it won't build character? 65% of kids in America are driven to school by their parents. the socioeconomic state of that country including mass, sprawling suburbanisation with inherent car-addiction has made it very difficult for children to achieve even a modicum of agency in their lives. I do not find it surprising the way it is impacting on American children. source: ▶ this video

Toronto, by any chance? One other thing that frustrates me about most cities in North America is how car-dependent they are [0]. [0] ▶ this video